Metro Aurora

Chief defends detaining 40 during Aurora bank robber hunt

“We had a virtual certainty that the bank robber was in one of those cars,” Oates said.

AURORA | Aurora police Chief Dan Oates today defended the department’s decision to stop almost 20 cars and detain 40 people Saturday during a search for a pistol-wielding bank robber.

Oates said the operation, which included handcuffing all the men and some women, was unusual, but necessary.

“We had a virtual certainty that the bank robber was in one of those cars,” Oates said.

An armed robber gestures at a customer inside the Wells Fargo Bank at East Hampden Avenue and South Chambers Road on June 2, 2012.

Officers did find the suspect in one of the cars, and he will likely face bank robbery charges in federal court, Oates said. Investigators also found a beekeeper mask they say the man wore during the robbery as well as two pistols connected to the crime, he said.

The United States Attorney’s Office in Denver identified the man this evening as Christian Paetsch, 45. He was charged today with armed bank robbery and using a gun during a crime of violence, prosecutors said.

Oates said Paetsch was from Centennial and had one misdemeanor arrest on his record.

The incident started around 3:50 p.m. Saturday when police say the robber barged into a Wells Fargo Bank at East Hampden Avenue and South Chambers Road and pointed a gun several people in the bank.

The robber, who was wearing a mask that covered virtually all of their face, then fled the area.

Oates said officers determined that the robber had to be in one of 19 vehicles headed east on East Iliff Avenue near South Buckley Road at about 4:20 p.m. The intersection is about two miles northeast of the bank.

Oates declined to say exactly how officers knew the suspect was going to pass through the intersection, but stressed that investigators were certain he would.

Officers didn’t have details about the suspect’s appearance, including gender and race, so they stopped every car, Oates said.

The operation lasted more than two hours and Oates said officers searched just the one car where they found the mask, guns and suspect.

Oates said “investigative detentions” like the one Saturday are very rare, but allowable under the law.

None of the 40 people detained have lodged complaints, Oates said, but the department has heard complaints form other people who weren’t involved in the stops.

Oates apologized for the inconvenience the operation imposed on people, but said it was needed to catch a dangerous bank robber.

“No question we inconvenienced citizens, and I feel badly about that,” Oates said.

The operation will be reviewed, Oates said, but he stands by the lieutenant who ordered it.

“I can’t find fault with the decisions that were made,” he said.

ALSO READ:

AURORA POLICE CHIEF DEFENDS DETAINING UP TO 40 TO SNAG ROBBBER

PERRY: EVEN IN A GRAY WORLD, POLICE MUST ABIDE BY UNREASONABLE SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS

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  • nice job apd

    Sounds like a great job, the people who weren’t inconvenienced complained about what, that they didn’t get their 15 minutes of fame?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_25RYFZQ4DGIAIIU3PJVVGWZCIU Glenn

      Really?

      • Jared Panuco

        Glenn, in Latin American culture, there’s this quote which reads off a bit like this:

        “The one who pays, commands.”

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N6FWZZT67ZNHYXX3RYWMZYGQ7E Sc00ter

        Yes really.  My wife and I have preached 1. firearm safety (do not point guns of any type at others) and 2. if you are ever lost or in trouble go to a police man.  You cannot tell me these kids are not traumatized by this.  How do you reconcile this with them?  “That man that had the gun pointed at you, yanked you out of the car, and put your parents in handcuffs is the same person you are supposed to go to when you need help?”  No I was not involved with this, but I live blocks from this and very well could have been there.  I am not on the side of the bank robber, but they need to do their job better than this.  Where do YOU draw the line?  How much of your freedom do you want to throw away?  Once the door is opened, you don’t get it back.  Is it ok for the police to kick open your front door because someone (who they have no real idea what he looked like) robbed a 7-11 down the street and “MIGHT” be in your neighborhood?  “Let me rummage through your property and see if I can find something incriminating” doesn’t work for me.  You cannot tell me that Chief Oates would not come unglued if something similar happened to his family, ripped them out of their car and detained them because a possible armed tax evader (which they had no real description of) might be lurking in the area.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N6FWZZT67ZNHYXX3RYWMZYGQ7E Sc00ter

       Spoken like a person who wasn’t yanked out of their car at gun point.  Normally it would be considered false imprisonment, but badges and uniforms make it ok.

      • Z Lego

        Your right I bet the robbery has the charges dropped Bc he had his rights violated also.

      • ViolinSupport

        Were you Yanked out of your car at gun point? As i have heard they were very professional and not rude or “Yanking” They were never even arrested that would make “False imprisonment”  kinda hard don’t you think? 

    • John Tokalenko

      “People” like you will eventually receive your well-earned traitor’s reward, i.e., a braided necktie or a bullet from a firing squad.  Keep gloating.

    • AJ HamStar

      15 minutes of fame wouldn’t cover it, the victims were handcuffed and detained for 2 hours.    I used to support the cops, but I don’t support a police state.

      An investigative detention is for a suspect for which you have a Reasonable Articulable Suspicion. But if there were 40 people detained, by definition there is no REASONABLE suspicion against any individual there, because even if one turns out to be the robber, there is a 97 percent chance that any given individual was not involved.  So now a 3% chance is REASONABLE suspicion?  No way in heck!

      If Reasonable suspicion is spread to groups of people, then invidiaul rights are now absolutely meaningless.
      If they can detain 40 random people for 2 hours, based on “virtual
      certainty” it is one of them, then why not 100 people for 4 hours?  Or
      1000 people for 8 hours, or a day?  I mean if they had grabbed 1000
      people, wouldn’t the chances of finding a bad guy have been even better?

       So far, they arrested someone for having a weapon, and a beekeeper’s mask.   Wow, that is some strong evidence. I am shocked they didnt just declare him guilty and send him directly to prison. Seriously – If this was a bank robbery, where is the money , where are the dye packets?

      • IdahoMan

        “An investigative detention is for a suspect for which you have a
        Reasonable Articulable Suspicion. But if there were 40 people detained,
        by definition there is no REASONABLE suspicion against any individual
        there, because even if one turns out to be the robber, there is a 97
        percent chance that any given individual was not involved.  So now a 3%
        chance is REASONABLE suspicion?  No way in heck!

        If Reasonable suspicion is spread to groups of people, then invidiaul rights are now absolutely meaningless. If they can detain 40 random people for 2 hours, based on “virtual certainty” it is one of them, then why not 100 people for 4 hours?  Or 1000 people for 8 hours, or a day?  I mean if they had grabbed 1000 people, wouldn’t the chances of finding a bad guy have been even better?”

        +1

        Let’s just “Lock Down” whole neighborhoods. And you know full well that’s where they want to head next.

        Ambushing and rounding up 40+ people, cuffed, and at the barrel of a gun for a random search. This is the kind of crap you saw in Germany in the 1940s. 

        I know it’s been said many times before, but Americans cannot/will not put up with crap forever. We are better off than those who have suffered such past abuses as round-ups/genocide in that we have many benefits still with us including a Right to Keep and Bear Arms, a culture that still somewhat retains its understanding of individual rights, and the examples of past evil regimes(Ex: Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia).

        “Law Enforcement” in this country really is asking for it.  People are not under any delusion that LE is a self-serving, predatory, and violent group of people with a clear USvsThem attitude that see our rights as an impediment to them “doing their jobs”. 

        We are supposed to have Peace Officers that are extensions of ourselves, paid to do help us in the defense of our rights.

        • robertsgunshop

          It’s been quite a while since we’ve had “Peace Officers” in this country.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5JNKEWTJOX7RLZXUNVCCW22Q4Y Grey Wolf

    Mass detentions should not be an option.  It’s too dangerous.  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_25RYFZQ4DGIAIIU3PJVVGWZCIU Glenn

      Agree – This could have been done much differently.

    • ViolinSupport

      What was so dangerous? Would you rather have, a gun man on the lose? 5 people just got killed in Seattle because of a lone gun man. If he were going to start shooting I would much rather have 30 cops around to take him out before the second shot instead of being able to leave one cafe and go shoot up another. 

      • robertsgunshop

        How about the fact that 40 people were rounded up, handcuffed and had no where to run. What if the robbery suspect decided to empty the magazines in his guns into the crowd of sheep? How many dead and wounded sheep are ok with you? 

  • Wake Up

    APD broke the law and Oates is a liar including his police dept. they all will be exposed  just keep your eye’s wide open .

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_25RYFZQ4DGIAIIU3PJVVGWZCIU Glenn

      Help me understand what, exactly, is Oates lying about.

      • John Tokalenko

        Like with politicians, you can always tell when a cop is lying: when his lips are moving.

      • AJ HamStar

         He is lying when he says that mass detentions are simply investigative detention.
        The 4th Amendment is an individual right, which means people are due a process that treats them as an individual.  There was NO reasonable suspicion against any individual in that group , by definition, because even if the suspect is in that group of 40 people, the chances that it is any individual in that group is around 3%.  And a 3% chance that someone is guilty of something is NOT within the definition of a Reasonable Suspicion.

        I do not beleive that the limits of investigative detention have been settled by SCOTUS, but this abuse by the department is likely to be far far beyond the line.

        • ViolinSupport

          So by your standards you would prefer that unless they have a “group” of 1 where the chances of that person being guilty are 100% it is unlawful? the number of people guilty is always going to be less than 50% even where does it become ok? You would have preferred this man walk away without getting caught because those are your two options. Caught or not. The next time your money is stolen we will respect your rights! 

        • Starr3214

          the bank teller through a GPS tracking device in the money bag so the police knew the robber was in those cars but not which one. SO? what about just a roadblock and search the cars as they came up? but to handcuff parents in front of their children etc. The only reason people haven’t filed yet is money for lawyers, but hopefully a lawyer will do a class action suit and take this on. This is wrong. And the bank robber was not trying to hurt anyone, just get away..and the bank is insured, and there was no threat to national security. You are so right and we must speak out and keep this going. Thanks.

  • Jason

    I am wondering how children in cars were dealt with when their parents were detained, and how could the APD be sure that they wouldn’t create a forced hostage situation or deadly shootout by barricading those vehicles. 
    I’m not saying I’m against what was done, just those two troubling realities keep playing over and over. 

  • Cheesy

    There is no excuse for violating BASIC constitution rights, you unprincipled wannabe tyrant Oates. You should be fired and locked in a cell until you have a clue about what “unlawful detainment” is .
    I can’t do that, but I can do this:
    Instead of spending ANY of my vacation dollars in CO, I’ll go to Utah or Wyoming instead, just because YOU are a douchebag.
    Douchebag.

  • Cheesy

    By the way, the law also  requires this thing called ‘evidence’.
     your “virtual certainty” is certainly not mentioned ANYWHERE.

    • ViolinSupport

      And you think Evidence pops out of thin AIR!?! THEY FOUND THE EVIDENCE HE HAD BOTH GUNS AND THE MASK IN HIS CAR. There is your evidence they were right!

  • http://twitter.com/weyermanfp Pamela J. Weyerman

    Oates is an attorney able to practice in New York and New Jersey; just a bit of trivia.
    However, he does not have to concern himself with a review.  Even if APD violated civil rights no one in this city would have the courage or energy to do anything about it.  There seem to be just a few people left willing to take on scary police departments.  Police departments are all powerful and I for one would be very scared to ruffle their feathers. 

    • John Tokalenko

      Unless people want another Holocaust, they’re going to HAVE TO take on these out of control pigs and the “judges” who empower them…with guns.

      Fact: Nazi SS chief of police Heinrich Himmler was the president of the International Criminal Police Organization, aka INTERPOL.  “Just doing their jobs.”  Yeah, immoral, unconstitutional, and outright tyrannical “jobs.”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JRGJK6ID7WWVU4NDCHDH7OIHSM DickF

    This is not the first time an armed robbery has occurred in Aurora (to say the least).  What were the extraordinary circumstances that led to this mass roundup, immobilization, and detention of innocent parties, including frightened children – at gunpoint?  Probable cause?  Not likely.  Immediate threat to innocent parties and property (e.g., because of weapons fired or vehicle out of control)?  Not likely.  Because it would be quicker and more efficient to apprehend the suspect this way?  Yes, likely.  The APD spokesperson said this tactic was quite unusual and he had not seen it in his 24 years.  Well, we’ve seen it now.  Should we now expect that, whenever we good citizens of Aurora are out and about on the city streets doing our normal, lawful business, we will be subject to such non-selective operations from here on?  Perhaps we should forewarn our kids, “If a bunch of policemen pointing guns at us come to our car, it’s okay.  We’re not really the bad guys and they are just doing their job.”  This is not the America I grew up in.

    • Z Lego

      Your said it better than I could, if this is what America has become, then this is the first time in my adult life that I am not proud to be an American

      • Earlallenboek

         Really Z….only the first time… #OccupySecurity

      • RB

        Who are you? Michelle Obama?

      • jimmyt

        I’ve lost count myself

    • Earlallenboek

       #OccupySecurity  #OccupyAuroaPD  Sounds like to me…like this would have turned into a real Turkey Shoot…had the robbers, who I hear were heavy armed, had got out shooting….this would have had a much different spin on it._citizenactivist

  • Jared Panuco

    It’s ironic how people still try to “rob a bank” empirically.

    I mean, this so called idiot (oh,I mean “robber”) could’ve easily gotten away with a couple hundred million in the derivatives market, stealing from bank accounts, across the globe. But, he actually pulled a 50s style bank robbery…Give me a break!

    What is happening to the intellect of people?

    • ViolinSupport

      I knew this “idiot” as you call him. He was a Master Violinist, an amazing teacher, an amazing Friend, Father, and Husband. Things happen I don’t know what caused this but I know the man and I know that its not as simple as “idiot”. Try again.

      • Jared Panuco

        In the situation that he tried to “rob” a bank the old fashion way, makes him an idiot. Saying that he was a master violinist, amazing teacher, et çetera has nothing to do with what I was arguing; that’s an argument for another time, not this one. 

  • Pingback: Accused bank robber is former music teacher – Aurora Sentinel

  • Kahilljim

    Aurora police are out of control. Handcuffing the people at an intercection? When did this become a police state?
    So anytime a crime is committed the Aurora Police believe they can knock down your door at your house and come in, handcuff you and search for the
    culprits. This the same idea as the incident at the stop light. What if I had been legally carrying a firearm in my car that day? I would have been shot by the nazi police.
    The Aurora police disgust me and every citizen of this country. I hope they are reading this and please feel free to comment. I’m sure they will claim they we can’t
    talk about this and steal our free speech rights. It’s time to stand up people, wake up. Stop being sheeple.

    • John Tokalenko

      The only way the pigs and the “judges” are going to stop committing evil is for the People to bring justice to them *personally*.  Whether that involves drilling genuine fear into them by making them not know if they’ll make it home alive; making them pay out of their own personal monies; and/or outright killing them for treason, whatever it takes to protect Freedom.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rereagan Roland Reagan

    Aurora, I see your taxes going up to pay for the lawsuits. 

    • RightNow9435

      Yep—ALL of those Hostages should be headed to a lawyer and sue on both departmental and individual levels.

      • Z Lego

        Most ppl dont know this but a person can use reasonable force to detain a person that had committed a crime. Let say I try to detain a person for robbery and the person fights with me and I punch him and he did in deed Ron the bank it’s ok. Let’s say I detain the wrong person I go to jail for sure. The cops do it and some ppl are ok with it. Not me! These ppl should have protested.

  • Jim C.

    This “chief” is a disgrace to freedom loving Americans everywhere.  This is little more than police-state thuggery.  Honest, law abiding people were frightened, put in physical restraints, and humiliated in public by these jack-booted thugs with badges   Americans are constitutionally protected against unreasonable and illegal search and seizure.  

    Why did they have no description of the robber or the robber’s vehicle, yet they knew he was at this intersection?  Something does not add up.  It does appear to be an excessive over-reaction by a police department that knows no bounds of courtesy or civil restraint. 

    I hope it costs Aurora millions of dollars, and anyone supporting this action in Aurora’s government their JOBS,  and serves as a wake up call to people across the nation.  

  • slavetotheflyrod

    I’d venture a guess that a huge settlement is in the future for these innocent folks that had their rights trampled.  

    In addition I’d suggest the parties effect a citizens arrest against each and every one of the armed thugs that took part in this.  Kidnapping, menacing, assault, battery, and official misconduct would be appropriate charges.  

    A badge and a gun does not give them carte blanche to kidnap innocent civilians en masse.  The same laws that apply to the rank and file citizens apply to the cops as well.  

    • ViolinSupport

      Please! As far as we can hear there isn’t a complaint out of the people  actually detained. Also, the police were completely ant totally professional you think you can do a better job go apply to be our protector without a gun see how far that gets you. 

      • robryan1720

        If these police didn’t have a problem of pointing a gun and forcing people out of their cars, they wouldn’t have had a problem shooting any one that didn’t comply whether man woman or child , and these people were not detained they were arrested, handcuffing equals arrest.

      • slavetotheflyrod

        Completely and totally professional?  Is that what you call violating the fourth amendment rights of 40 some innocent bystanders by pulling them out of their vehicles at gunpoint?  Perhaps you’d care to stop by some time and I can pull you out of your car at gunpoint, handcuff you, and leave you sitting on the curb for two hours while you reconsider the definition of “completely and totally professional”  I’ll even be sure to wear a snappy blue uniform and a tin badge so that you won’t have to feel like your rights are being violated.  

        How would that be?

      • John H

         WRONG.

        There were complaints. 

        Even if there were none the police actions were ILLEGAL.

      • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

         OH BALONEY  You think they all got free pizza after they had dozens of 9MM pointed at their heads…you must have a paper one.

  • Fx105

    Nice to have guns pointed at a car full of kids.

  • John Tokalenko

    “Oates said the operation, which included handcuffing all the men and some women, was unusual, but necessary.”

    Hanging Oates from a lamppost is “necessary.”

  • Imahead

    Oates was on the news saying he only had 5 complaints.
    I added one today!  

    I am sick of paying for Aurora Police’s stupid actions.
    How many settlements will it take me to learn (to move somewhere else)?  Our taxes are being wasted by the trigger happy police.

  • Tom

    I am embarassed for the city of Aurora and its’ citizens. This type of behavior by the police is both outrageous and unconscionable. The Aurora Police Department is not reflective of a professional police agency and if the chief condones this behavior (which by his statements, he clearly does) then he should be arrested and charged with civil rights violations. How many people have died for our country to prevent totalitarian actions like this from happening. The Aurora Police Department and Chief Oates owes America’s veterans, both living and dead, a tremendous apology. Unless and until they provide one, they are a disgrace to everyone that wears a badge. Shame on the Aurora Police Department. They do not reflect anyone else that is a professional law enforcement officer!

  • Thyshortone

    The only difference between the robber pointing a gun at innocent people and police pointing guns at innocent people is that the police don’t have to wear a mask.

    • ViolinSupport

      Really? would you rather them go up against the criminals of our city with clubs, think of their own safety I wouldn’t walk up to an armed criminal unarmed or even gun in holster. I have two jobs to do, PROTECT the innocent (in this situation done fully) AND PROTECT MY SELF! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/iansgrandma Lynne Marie Gullion

    Sensationalism?  

  • John H

    My family fought and died for YOUR constitutional rights Chief.  How dare you make their ultimate sacrifice a joke.

    What you did is JUST as illegal as the bank robbery itself.  Your actions make your police state as big a threat as the bank robber.  A bigger threat really.

    If you’re willing to do one illegal act how can we NOT put it past you to have ‘staged’ the robbery to set a precedence to get us all used to living in Stalin’s Russia or Hitler’s Germany?

    As the two above said… “The end justifies the means.”

    • Gogetter

      Yes John, they staged the robbery to benefit whom exactly??? Brilliant. Allow your emotions to trump logic and then thrown out an inherently stupid analogy. 

      • John H

         Gogetter, Since when does a bank robber politely wait in a check point line to get nabbed? 

        First, explain that one to me.

        As far as who benefits, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

        It’s called acclimation and acceptance in the name of ‘normalizing’ this kind of police state nonsense.

        Don’t be so naive. 

         

        • Earlallenboek

           #OccupyAurora   You know John…you may have something there   @OccupySecurity:disqus

    • RJM

      I Totally agree we are becomming a communsist country what the hell happened to freedom in which I served in Vietnam fighting for our freedom and now there is no such thing we are told each and every day we should allow those who oppress us to run our lives and we have no choice what has our country come to I am glad our forefathers have long since past they would have turned over in there graves to see what has happened.

  • IdahoMan

    Oates,

    Having guns pointed at you for no reason is grounds for self-defense.

    What would have happened to your officers had several of these kidnap victims fought back? We Americans are ARMED too you know.

    Are you so arrogant to not understand/care what your department has done?  How do you think this will affect your men now that people will start viewing every officer they come across as a threat? Was it worth your “convenience” of trampling everybody’s rights -in mass and backed by lethal-force no less- to now have lost whatever legitimacy you may have had as a protective service and having crossed the line into being a group of thugs?

    Meditate on this for a while:

    “If ‘police’ insist on acting like an occupying enemy
    army, they should not at all be surprised if the citizenry
    play their opposing role in return.”

    As for the victims that suffered this, I hope they sue the snot out of your officers and department. Let’s hope that the courts still function as means to obtain justice and restraint, otherwise there is only the sword.

    • ViolinSupport

      Who were they Threatening? These were fully announced and properly clothed. If you can’t tell the difference between Protecting police and an Attacker than you shouldn’t have the gun, you are the one I am scared of. A police officer also doesn’t point his gun directly at you unless you make a move against him. Thank you officers for your diligent, Respectful and properly excited arrest of a armed man. You have done your city a service. 

      • IdahoMan

        Go away troll.

      • Crashfistfite

        “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306

    • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

       @OccupySecurity   #OccupyAuroraPD

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FIJ4WCEOLJI6U6CUMB5NBVZ3UY SheilahDavis

    The officers should count their blessings that the suspect didn’t decide to start shooting the people they handcuffed and detained. 

    Perhaps Oates should rethink this strategy. 

    • ViolinSupporrt

      If he were the kind of man to stand up in front of cops and soot innocent bystanders don’t you think its better he be taken into custody then and risk a shot or two. or would you rather let him drive, get away and the next time maybe he decides to shoot up a cafe full of people and the cops are 15 min away. It is more risky to let him escape. At least if he opened fire the cops would be sends away from a response instead of 10 minuets. Thank you officers!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7CFABPZ6T6OUKPSDLPEDNXSFW4 Seabo

    What a brilliant idea! Now all we have to do to protect our “Freedoms”
    and” Liberty” is hire more cops, use the armed forces and handcuff the entire
    citizenry while our “protectors of Freedom and Liberty” frisk every person,
    search every house and car and gather up all the criminals so that we will be
    crime free. 

  • in KY

    I remember when the FBI first used the catch phrase “a person of interest”  to harass 
    Steven Hatfill for years with out any evidence at all that he was involved. He finally decided to take  $5.82 million from the government to settle his claim that the Justice Department and the FBI invaded his privacy and ruined his career a small price to get for all he went through. Now we hear the police using that catch phrase all the time (a person of interest). 
    Now we hear these police use a new catch phrase (the end justifies the means). Which means they can do what ever they want an long as the outcome benefits them. I bet we will start hearing that phrase a lot.
    Maybe if all 40 of the people won and award of $5.82 million each like Steven Hatfill from the state they may start respecting the Constitution.

  • Earlallenboek

    These officers and the chief are to be commended…then FIRED..for this very dangerous, illegal, unconstitutional BS action. This is not Red China yet ladies and gentlemen…and you can play cop with your lives but you don’t have the right yet, in America, that is…to play cops and robbers with mine or my fellow innocent citizens….CitizenActivst   Volunteered, Vietnam Vet, Top Secret Clearance, Expert with 5 Weapons, Top In My Class, who was almost killed several times, just in training…before I even got into the war, by my fellow Military Police Officers….’BY ACCIDENT’

  • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

    My comment was removed…I said all the officers involved and the chief should be commended THEN FIRED.  Unconstitutional, Illegal and I’ll
    leave out the part about the stuff that comes out of a BULL ____ action.
    this time._citizenactivist   @OccupySecurity  #OccupyAuroraPD

  • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

     Right…Commend them, Good Job guys…and fire them all now.
    Geez….you folks thought you  were in Red China there for a little bit didn’t ya….

  • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

     Right ON..if that works…let’s shake down the entire city…search every fricken house…for evidence of crimes…I’m all in…let’s get  it on! _citizenactivist

  • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

     Amen sister…they are SSSOOOOO blessed, they don’t even know.
    EXCuSe me Violin…while I puke.  You are so sheltered you look foolish…make that read foolish.

  • http://twitter.com/greenearldotcom Earl Allen Boek

     I say BK the entire city and fire em all.  Every Dang One of Em

  • bepd

    I do hope this goes to court.  Two wrongs don’t make a right just because those we previously believed were good guys… won.  There is a Consitution and APD had not right to change it on the spot.  What if the bad guy decided to start shooting all those handcuffed since he had no way out anyway?  I can’t believe people held by PD haven’t filed suit yet.  Hope they do. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KDDHGZLUXBPLXXCRQTIXW5MEOE Daniel

    You did NOT just inconvenience citizens. You violated their constitutional rights. This chief is a complete moron and a socialist

    • Skipdallas

      It tickles the crap out of me when people like you call someone a “Socialist” when they do something that you do not approve of. How on earth do you know what this dumbass’s political leanings are? From my experience, most police chiefs are Republicans or at least very conservative. And while some socialists are morons, not all morons are socialists. You are a good example of this.

  • Theo_Belk

    Despite of the police department’s good intentions, they are guilty of an (arguably) worse crime than the bank robber. I’m sure the police department would not hesitate to charge us all with crimes committed regardless of our intent. Police Chief Dan Oates must be accountable for his crime here.

    Since the department is unlikely to discipline itself in this matter, I recommend bringing it to the attention of the Mayor and the Aurora City Council: citycouncil@auroragov.org and on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/auroragov

  • slavetotheflyrod

    “Any person that would trade liberty for safety deserves neither.”

    I can’t remember whom to attribute that quote but it seems relevant in this particular instance.

    • sdtangler

      Google works really well for answering those types of questions.  I’m not going to do your research for you, hint:  he invented the lightning rod and bifocal glasses.

      • slavetotheflyrod

        Wow!

        What’s it like to be so smart?

        • sdtangler

          You’re confusing smart with ‘not lazy’.  

  • Sp4mm3d

    I can find lots of faults with the decisions made. If he can’t, I have to wonder where he learned logic, ethics, and law… or if he ever did at all.

  • sdtangler

    The department did have probable cause, and will ultimately be justified in their actions.

    However, the TSA has thrown your constitutional rights out the window.  And now, the TSA has begun doing roadside checks for terrorists…no kidding.  

    Welcome to our new police state.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N2GRQBUTVO3IJUKF3ZNVRLBQTI piecesparts

    I think a dozen or so lawsuits ought to stabilize this situation.  Ironic that one nasty aspect of American life (litigiousness) can be used to counter another (police arrogance).  God bless America

  • TheMadMason

    Wow, talk about bad police work. Yea they caught him, but at the expense of everyone else.

  • http://twitter.com/Stevenav Steven Avery ♘

    I recommend that the police chief Oates and his officers face death penalty charges over this. I’ve had it with this “security at any cost to our freedom and personal liberty” This is no longer acceptable.. ever. I don’t give a god da** who you think you are and what you think is okay, we have a Constitution for a reason and this was clearly a violation of all those innocent people’s civil rights. Noone was at imminent risk of life and limb from the robber, so there was no exigent circumstances. Were it a kidnapped child… yes, I’d say stop those people if at all possible. but a bank robbery… no.

     Were I on a jury and hearing a case where some of the people involved in this police state action started shooting those police officers in cold blood I’d side with the defendants. Each and every one of them would walk free without even so much as a slap on the wrist. I’d tell the police officers and court officials that I’ll do the same again as long as they keep it up (Jury Nullification)  this police state nonsense has to cease now.

    • Marcia

      Do out justice system a favor and never be in a jury. You are very biased and not even willing to hear information that you don’t know. Police officers have families with children. Stop being a drama queen.

  • ChasInNJ

    Rudolph Giuliani and Heinrich Himmler are proud of Chief Oates.

  • LTMP

    This just in:  

    Homeland security knows with certainty that a terrorist is in a home somewhere in the USA.  

    They will be detaining all residents of the US, and searching their homes.

    Said a spokesman for D.H.S.: “Our thanks to Aurora police Chief Dan Oates, for bringing to our attention the fact that we can legally conduct these kinds of investigative detentions.  We regret the inconvenience that this will cause all Americans, but these dangerous times require it”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.tietjens Richard Tietjens

    Lack of probable cause to detain a large group of citizens, unnecessary use of retraints without said probable cause, menacing under color of law… I would say the ACLU is going to clean the clocks of the Aurora Nazi Offices, I mean Police Department.

  • JP

     So it worked, and they caught the guy right? So what’s the problem? Oh that’s right, in modern America, everyone thinks they are special, unique snowflakes and any inconvenience in their life is a huge deal that everyone else should care about.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/IR6SHMYSWJPOS46TVWLYU7A2BQ AE

      Actually, the fourth amendment was ratified in 1791.

  • Mandisol

    They need to do whatever they need to do to catch the “bad” guys…if it means detaining citizens…then so be it.  They caught him GREAT job!  If they didn’t catch him…no biggie…gotta do what they gotta do…ridiculas to think otherwise.  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TQUNTRSYPNNGWTNY2CYH42YR2U mainsqueezer

      “No Biggie” ???? Obviously you’ve not the one of those who had a 12 gauge pointed at your head without probable cause. Check out the picture below and imagine if that was your kid. Still think it would be “no biggie” ? 

  • SFC MAC

    Inconvenience, like violating the 4th Amendment. If that had happened to me, by the time I got done raking the bastards over in court, I’d own his job.

  • Ghost

    So what?
    I’d rob a bank if the government is being a terrorist to it’s own citizens.
    -Hambone Truly,
    Ghost from True Capitalist Radio

  • Pingback: Do the police have rights too? « Hot Air

  • http://www.nleomf.org/officers/ FlatFoot

    Wooooo — look at all the constitutional law experts and lawyers commenting.

    Most haven’t a clue what the f–k they’re talking about and obtained their ‘knowledge’ and their ideas of law and constitutional rights from Hollywood TeeVee shows — but they won’t let that stop them from firing up that hair trigger cakehole and spouting off despite the fact that none of them were there, no constitutionally protected rights haven been proven violated [and never will be if the whole story is accurate], and that the armed bank robber was, in fact, apprehended and his ill-gotten gains were recovered along with his pistol(s) and disguise used in the commission of the crime. No siree.

    Any reason to vociferously hate on the police and spew utter ignorance and corrosive bile is — apparently — reason enough.

    Sometimes it also takes a village to assist in the capture and incarceration of violent armed felons, too, you village idiots self-serving nitwits. The police did an outstanding job — even if it was a little bit inconvenient for a miniscule fraction of the village inhabitants.

    • UraPhake

      Mr. FlatFoot — You are clueless. It doesn’t take a genius to read the Fourth Amendment and understand what it means. But here’s a spare clue for you anyway: In City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000), the Supreme Court ruled that discretionary checkpoints or general crime-fighting checkpoints are not allowed.

      The APD tactic was illegal. Period. Law enforcement is NOT above the law, no matter how much you may wish otherwise.

      It’s nice that the bank robber was captured, sure. But other than the one on top of your head, you’ve missed the point entirely. You’re just like one of those people who inevitably say in response to some proposal like allowing the police to (this is just an analogy, i.e., “not real”) search your home whenever they want for whatever reason, “If you’re not doing anything wrong then you don’t have anything to worry about.”

      Is that what you really believe? If so, you wouldn’t have had any problem living in East Germany with the Stasi who could do pretty much anything and everything they wanted to the citizenry there.

      This incident is not over, by any means, as you will soon see.

      • http://www.nleomf.org/officers/ FlatFoot

        “…living in East Germany with the Stasi”?
        We ARE “living in East Germany with the Stasi”.
        Or — have you not been paying attention to your/our Executive Branch?

        Look — here’s a clue and I won’t even charge you two-bits for it. You probably couldn’t afford it anyway.

        It was not an average ordinary everyday type fixed “discretionary checkpoint or general crime-fighting checkpoint” to begin with.

        The felonious crime [armed bank robbery] was ‘fresh’ [as opposed to 'stale'] — it was a lawful pursuit by law enforcement officers aided by modern technology — and — bummer for so easily inconvenienced weepy you — crime occasionally inconveniences everybody.

        Get over it.

        By the way — if you’re going to use a court citation to bolster your vapid diatribe — try reading it first, Dumb00ty.

         

        City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32

        Petitioner city operated vehicle checkpoints on its roads in an effort to interdict unlawful drugs.

        Held: Because the checkpoint program’s primary purpose is indistinguishable from the general interest in crime control, the checkpoints violate the Fourth Amendment.

        (a) The rule that a search or seizure is unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment absent individualized suspicion of wrongdoing has limited exceptions. For example, this Court has upheld brief, suspicionless seizures at a fixed checkpoint designed to intercept illegal aliens, United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 543, and at a sobriety checkpoint aimed at removing drunk drivers from the road, Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz, 496 U. S. 444. The Court has also suggested that a similar roadblock to verify drivers’ licenses and registrations would be permissible to serve a highway safety interest. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U. S. 648, 663.

        However, the Court has never approved a checkpoint program whose primary purpose was to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing.

         

        On — yeah — the United States District Court Judge in this case agrees with me too.

        Fresh Pursuit vs. Fixed Checkpoint. You lose — naturally. But thanks for playing anyway — weak and feeble of an attempt as it was.

  • Pythagoras

    This has already been adjudicated as legal – many times. Whole shopping malls have been locked down while looking for a snatched child. Groups get detained and searched often in search of a known criminal. I can’t believe how many clueless commenters we have here.

    The cops were brilliant and did a huge amount of good. If some idiot judge lets this guy go, you can be sure he will do a lot more harm than just tying up traffic for a couple of hours. Bank robbery with a gun should get him a long, long sentence. He’ll be a lot older when he gets out. Good.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1242264357 Michael Thomas

    Such actions are completely unjustifiable and indicative of the massive infringement of rights the general American populace will face unless YOU GET OFF YOUR ASS and stop bowing down to the totalitarian ways of our government. Furthermore, if you watch the video taken of the incident, which can be found on CNN, you will find that even simple detainees, not the actual suspect were being handled very rough and forcefully by the officers detaining them. What did they do to deserve this kind of abuse? Sources claim that the reason they detained all the cars at this particular stop light was because of a GPS unit hidden among the money that was stolen. This is very poor police work and could have cost many their lives. What would have happened if this robbery suspect, who was in fact among the commuters that were detained was a little desperate and decided to engage in a shoot out with officers rather than wait in his truck hoping they would pass him up? I tell you what would have happened; 39 innocent, handcuffed people would have been caught in a catastrophic cross fire. I wonder what the chiefs response would have been should that have been the suspects response. So the next time you think you’re “playing it safe” by just letting police “do their job” think again. Quite frankly I could give a rats ass what a Federal law gives them the right to do. They are sworn to uphold and protect our constitutional rights…..they are supposed to be our local government who protects us from infringement of our rights by the Federal government…not using Federal government initiatives to justify their bad behavior and poor policing. They would have most likely been just as effective letting the robbery suspect “think” he was getting away and using the GPS tracker to find him at his hide out. NOT put 39 innocent lives in danger by backing what they call a “dangerous armed suspect” into a corner.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1242264357 Michael Thomas

    Such actions are completely unjustifiable and
    indicative of the massive infringement of rights the general American
    populace will face unless YOU GET OFF YOUR TAIL and stop bowing down to
    the totalitarian ways of our government. Furthermore
    ,
    if you watch the video taken of the incident, which can be found on
    CNN, you will find that even simple detainees, not the actual suspect
    were being handled very rough and forcefully by the officers detaining
    them. What did they do to deserve this kind of abuse? Sources claim
    that the reason they detained all the cars at this particular stop light
    was because of a GPS unit hidden among the money that was stolen. This
    is very poor police work and could have cost many their lives. What
    would have happened if this robbery suspect, who was in fact among the
    commuters that were detained was a little desperate and decided to
    engage in a shoot out with officers rather than wait in his truck hoping
    they would pass him up? I tell you what would have happened; 39
    innocent, handcuffed people would have been caught in a catastrophic
    cross fire. I wonder what the chiefs response would have been should
    that have been the suspects response. So the next time you think you’re
    “playing it safe” by just letting police “do their job” think again.
    Quite frankly I could care less what a Federal law gives them the
    right to do. They are sworn to uphold and protect our constitutional
    rights…..they are supposed to be our local government who protects us
    from infringement of our rights by the Federal government…not using
    Federal government initiatives to justify their bad behavior and poor
    policing. They would have most likely been just as effective letting the
    robbery suspect “think” he was getting away and using the GPS tracker
    to find him at his hide out. NOT put 39 innocent lives in danger by
    backing what they call a “dangerous armed suspect” into a corner.

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  • cookin128

    Yeah, better break out the checkbook. Turns out “investigative detentions” require a little thing called reasonable suspicion.

  • schmack_the_knife

    What a disgusting display. Arrogant pigs!

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